Soft top window thread

[KenZ8]

Has anyone had a problem with clouding on the plastic window? It is very uniform, and getting difficult to see through on a sunny day. Any history on how BMW treats the problem under warranty?

[macfly]

There are several products available to clean the cloudy plastic. I use BMW's own soft top screen cleaner, you can buy it at any BMW dealer. (The very plentiful Z3 has the same problem, so it is a product that is in contsant supply.) It is quite amazing how well it works, the screen really looks like glass after cleaning.

[macfly]

These are the official instructions and illustrations for repairing the seal between the fabric and the plastic of the rear window panel. It is recommended that you use the original adhesive, which is available at most BMW dealers. It's called 'Terokal' and the part number is: 83190153050

[Dogsbreath]

I know a number of people had trouble with the surround of their soft top window seperating. It happened to me about 2 months ago.

Of note - the glue that BMW used was still tacky - they are doing something wrong there. Regardless, I applied a very thin layer of 'Dap 100% Clear Silicone Glue for Aquariums' and pushed the surround back in. I then ran my fingers hard over the surround to work the glue into the fabric. I did not drive the car for 48 hours. It has held for over 800 miles and that includes driving at high speed with the top up and the windows down (which I believe was the event that precipitated the seperation in the first place).

This glue is cheap and it really appears to have worked. One advantage of the silicone is that if you do spill a small amount or some leaks out of the seam you are closing just wait a few minutes until the glue is tacky. Then you can rub the glue vigorously and it will come off the surface.

Dave

[Dez1]

Thanks Dave. My top has bee separating just above the window. I plan to try your suggested solution rather than have the dealer try it. Dave D. Dez1

[Dogsbreath]

After 3 months my silicone glue has started coming apart. I will get the BMW guys to have a crack at it.

Dave

[macfly]

I think that this will be a constant issue with our cars, as the rubber lip is a little too little to give a good purchase for the glue.

[Rjay]

guess I will try the silicone idea, can't be any worse than the lousy dealer fix. I fixed my seatbacks myself and they have held fine ever since.

[Z8doc]

issue but an issue of bad design of the rear window. The canvas top around the window is not supposed to be glued into place as the the window is "designed" to be replaced from time to time. IF the entire circumference of the top were glued down, then you could not unzip the plastic window and replace it (yes, there is an industrial zipper around the window that requires a special tool to unzip it, which is done from the inside of the car). The design flaw is that the rubber stripping is too small to catch the fabric adequately and every top made has too little canvas to "tuck it under" like it is designed to.

I saw a post somewhere where the person stated it was from the zipper protruding outward and that his dealer replaced his window and rezipped it flat and did not have a problems after.

I agree with Macfly that this will be a constant issue -- maybe the Club could help stimulate BMW to tackle this annoyance once the frame issue is over?:cool:

[hapc]

Hi Friends

Again I ask for a little advice. I do not tolerate the sun and have never had the hardtop off of my car, but I am honestly worried about the soft top. Does the soft top come out of the car for easy storage? Should I do this and if so how is it done? Do you use the hardtop rack?

The other evening, right after sunset, I took my daughter for a ride in the Z8 and we agreed that it would have been nice to have the top down, so I am about to consider removing the top. My car dose not squeak or rattle and is wind tight. I won't remove the top if I will loose these attributes. How has the experience been on replacing the top? How is the car with the soft top up? Wind noise, etc? As a coupe, I think the car is just great and I don’t want to mess it up. :rolleyes:

By the way, I have never even opened the big box that I believe contains the top rack the rack nor have I opened the heavy clothe packages that have the convertible stuff in them. If I wanted to sell the car, this might be a selling point – still wrapped up NOS. :)
Thanks for any information or advise
Hap

[Z8doc]

Z8 experience by NOT driving topless (the top of the car that is...:D )!!!

To answer your questions:

1] The hardtop comes off very easily and requires 2 people of reasonable strength. My wife is 5'2", 120# and can not lift the other side (to my satisfaction) for fear of her dropping it. The top is not particularly heavy but cumbersome and hence anyone of small stature will have some trouble manuvering it and tilting it to place it on the hard top rack.

2] The wind noise is more noticible with the convertible top up but I was quite surprised out how little there is compared to other convertibles I have owned in the past so I think it is fine. Wind buffeting is just "OK" with the top down, the wind screen (in one of those bags you mentioned) does help and with it on and the windows up, you can hear the radio pretty well and have a conversation with your passenger easily and experience minimal wind buffeting. I personally, LOVE my Z8 MORE topless, as it is truly a gorgeous car when the top is down and the boot cover is on!! (PS: if you are not going to use the boot cover and the windscreen - they are leather so do not forget to condition them every so often to keep them in good shape).

3] Then when convertible season is over, I put the top back on -- it's is just like getting a new car all again as it changes the look dramatically. Word of caution here though, when putting the hardtop back on, make sure the softtop is tucked inside nicely and away from the anchor posts of the hardtop. It is easy to pinch the top when putting the hardtop back on and put a hole in your softtop!!

4] Your post mentions removing the softtop? Not sure about this as I have never heard of anyone doing that? I really think there is no reason to, but I think you should make sure that the BMW cloth that came with the car is ON your softtop while it is stored and put away under the hardtop as the rear window is plastic and the cloth prevents scratching while stored.

5] I have had my Z8 for 3 years (38,900 miles) and only this past winter did the hardtop squeak. My dealer ship lubricated a few of the mechanical parts/locking parts and the squeak is gone. The only recurring problem I have had with the top is the softtop rear window seal, the fabric comes loose from the rubber seal and is a frequent common problem as every Z8 owner I have known has that problem. Since you bought your's used, I'd bet your soft top has had that problem as some point too. A problem BMW is not going to recall and something that it looks like we all will have to live with.

I personally think you are missing the best part of the experience without putting your top down. A nice spring, summer, or fall drive in the evening is PERFECT top down driving and an experience you should not deprive yourself of!! Send me your address and I will send you a big bottle of sunscreen (spf 50) and a big hat to help with the sun during the day!!:D

Hope that help--

[macfly]

without the hardtop. If eating miles and long freeway drives is your thing the hardtop really seals in the cabin well, keeping the car almost silent on the inside. I kept mine on for the first year I had my first Z8 because I was constantly at the track with it, and I also didn't have a stand or a safe place to stow it, so I just left it on. It is a great coupe with the top on, but like the Doc says you are really not getting the greatest gift the Z8 has to offer with the top on, or up.

As you know we just did around 2,600 miles on the MITM drive, and I think I only had my top up thrice, and then only to take shade from the searing midday sun. For sunset and moonlit drives it is just incredible as a top down sportster. On the first day of the MITM drive Norcal and I took an after dinner spin from Furnace Creek Lodge in Death Valley up to Dante's Peak which looks out over the valley from 6,000 odd feet, and it was one of the loveliest top down night drives ever - stars and a crescent moon on a warm desert night suit the Z8 very well indeed!

Certainly a lot of wind and road noise gets into the cabin with the soft-top compared to the hardtop, especially on the freeway. However it isn't that bad, and being able to drop the top and enjoy the car as a convertible when the conditions are just right is sensational. Avoid the high sun, time your drives right, and I think you'll be delighted. The heated seats and the heater are easily a match for even the coldest of conditions, so fear not - try topless out of the sun, and see what you think.

The one thing that I really do recommend is this gadget (http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showthread.php?t=211&referrerid=2), makes the whole affair so civilized and simple.

I also always leave my soft-top up when the car is parked. I learnt this from Jürgen at the Z8 Club, who told me it is the best way to preserve it. Not shut tight all the way, but just in the fully up position before the catches bite and clamp it shut, so the canvas is nicely stretched and breathing, but there is no pressure on the rubber seals.

[hapc]

Thanks Jeff and Andrew
I live in So Cal so I do have a nice big hat. I used sunscreen when I was riding a bike, so I won't ask you to send me any, but I appreciate the offer and the information. I actually bought my 03 Z8 new and took delivery in Jan of 03, but have never removed the top. I am assuming that the other top is down there. :) She now has 8500 miles and I think I am about to remove the top. By the way, I just took delivery of my 06 Ford GT, and I don't need 2 coupes, so the roadster is looking better all of the time. :) My wife is in Russia right now but as soon as she gets back, I think the top will come off - in fact perhaps I will ask a friend for a little help and have it off when she gets back. You guys convinced me - thanks again. I'll let you know about my experience.
Hap

[Z8doc]

describing the experience of driving with the top down. You really are missing the best part of ownership.

As far as the EZ lift goes, I agree that it makes it very easy but my electric garage door opener conflicts with the space needed to have such a device and my garage bay is not long enough to use it with the car backed in so... I am left to do it manually.

Hey Mac, do the lift points on that EZ lift put pressure marks on the rubber seals OR the fabric area inside the top when you have it stored away? Just curious.

[macfly]

Those big fluffy pads like the one you can see on the top are what the top sits on underneath, so no marks at all.

[hapc]

Andrew et al
Since the back window on the soft top is plastic, are any of you using anything to proactively protect this window. Do you wax it or use any type of plastic preservative? Thanks again
Hap

[macfly]

BMW make a protector which some owners got with their cars (I didn't) and they also make a cleaner for the plastic screens that is really good, you can get both through your local dealer.

Also this company (http://64.225.94.154/ShopSite/page42.html) makes both protectors and cleaners, I have thiers, both great too.

[SProZ8]

The soft top rear window is beyond polishing. Salt air, sun and previous owner neglect has taken its toll. I've noted that BMW sells a replacement window that zips into the top. As there is no zipper slide, I assume there is a BMW proprietary tool required to remove the existing and replace with a new window. The alternate solution is to have a good top & upholstery shop replace the window with new eisenglass. Is there any member experience on this issue?

SProZ8

[KenZ8]

by BMW and it's perfect again. They go through a proprietary sequence, and the top is like new.

[SProZ8]

Got a cost from the dealer for a labor install cost of $900+, but recall on the other forum, one owner said it took him about 2 hours to install with a helper. Might have been a Z3 top though. I'll make a few more calls for install prices, as dealer labor costs seem to vary greatly, and I've not married to any yet.

[macfly]

If you are in the Bay Area then I'd recommend Peter Pan, but other than them there isn't anyone in CA I've found that I love. Replacing the window is pretty easy if you at all mechanically inclined, but replacing the soft top is a devil of a job, and one also frought with dangers becuase if the coating on the magnesium frame gets even a little nick on it it will start to oxidize crazy fast.

[z84.6jim]

Just had mine replaced at Main Line BMW in Bala Cynwyd Pa
It is labor intensive....took 2 men 4 hours......they had to restitch and glue and then because it was so tight, they had to put weight on the top in an almost closed condition overnight to stretch it so top could close.........It looks brand new!

[SProZ8]

Finally replaced the rear window with a new BMW unit. Cost for the window thru BMW was $470+ tax and the local upholstery shop charged their regular BMW price of $75 for a seamless install. He complained the interior area was tight for working in due to the roll hoops. Looks clear. Rain tight? When's the next rain in SoCal.

Steve

[jdillane]

I recently inquired at my local BMW dealer in Bloomfield Hills, MI about the BMW soft top screen cleaner. I was advised that they no longer carry the product!?!

In perusing the autopia car care web site, I came across Plexus Plastic Cleaner and Polish. Wonder if any have tried and what there experience has been. Or, any alternatives to recommend?

[macfly]

It seems that BMW has indeed stopped selling it, I guess they no longer make plastic windowed cars, so it got deleted from their catalog. According to Roadster Solutions these are the products BMW recommends, in service bulletin 540500, to maintain the clarity of your rear window.

Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Clear Plastic Detailer #18
A single-step solution that keeps clear plastic surfaces pristine. Regain the original crystalline clarity of plastic in need of restoration, using this convenient all-in-one product specially formulated by Meguiar’s. Simply spray it on and wipe it dry. You will safely remove surface contamination and achieve dramatic results on everything from window panels to instrument lenses.

Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Clear Plastic Cleaner #17
Safely removes hairline scratches, dirt and grime. Clear plastic that has lost its clarity due to significant contamination and fine scratches should be treated using the two-step process. Meguiar’s non-abrasive, alcohol-free Plastic Cleaner aggressively cleans and removes scratches without harming the surface. Follow up with the #10 Plastic Polish for a perfect finish.

Mirror Glaze Clear Plastic Polish #10
The finishing touch for maximum clarity and brilliance. Meguiar’s Plastic Polish provides the second step in the two-step restoration process for clear plastics. One easy application protects surfaces previously cleaned with #17 Plastic Cleaner. You will restore the natural brilliance, while leaving behind an anti-static coating that helps repel damaging dust and dirt.

You can order them from Roadster Solutions, scroll to bottom of this page (http://64.225.94.154/ShopSite/page95.html).

[macfly]

You could also try this one (http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/car+care/car+washing/car+cleaners/plastic+care+kit.do?search=basic&keyword=plastic+cleaner&sortby=newArrivals&page=1) from Griots Garage, let us know what you find, and how it works.

[jawz]

I can vouch for the Mirror Glaze. It's used extensively in the helicopter industry to keep plexiglass clean and clear and works great on the plastic windows of both the Z3 and Z8. Amazing results.

[jdillane]

Thanks for the tip!

I will try the Maguire's and report back.

[thegunguy]

I use Maguires on the Z8. I really should do it more often, but when I use it, it does the trick.

Recommended!

[uphguy]

Just a thought about permanetly glueing down the edge around the rear window is that it might make it impossible to replace and ruin any chance at reinstalling a window it can be repaired .DO NOT USE silicone or super glue .A thin coat of contact cement is always plyable and easy to pry up when replacing a window .Don,t leave top stored down in garage when not use it causes permanent creases and if strings are broken or came loose it could possibly cut top

[z84.6jim]

use contact cement. I am having the same issue on a new top!:mad:

[uphguy]

I use contact cement to install tops and i put very thin layer on both sides and let it tack up and stick it flat and tuck under bead email if you want me to do it uphguy

[z84.6jim]

I use contact cement to install tops and i put very thin layer on both sides and let it tack up and stick it flat and tuck under bead email if you want me to do it uphguy


Hey UPH GUY...thanks for the info....where are you located?

[uphguy]

Redwood city

[FWK-Z8]

The bead around the window is part of the top, not the window, so whatever glue works on it will not effect window changing.

Roaster Solutions sells window protectors for Z8's

http://www.roadstersolutions.com/page42.html

They are great people to deal with

[uphguy]

The bead around the window is sewn to the plastic window and half of the zipper. The other half of the zipper is sewn to the top. A new window comes with a bead to hide the raw edge of top when zipped together. The raw edge pulls away at the top of window because of being stored down, the double back tape also sewn in will let go because the top being bent in down position, permanent bonding is only a problem later when trying to clean surface and bonding raw edge top to new window edge, it takes a lot of time to clean well when other adhiesives are applied. It is easier to tuck edge of top in place when top is up with small plastic tool

[DanaC]

Just an FYI -

The person posting as "uphguy" is the person who does all of my convertible top work. I have used him for nearly 30 years. There is no person I trust more to work on convertible tops.

Thanks
Dana Caldwell
Service & Parts Director
Peter Pan BMW

[macfly]

Great to know - I asked him if he'd post a complete soft top care overview a couple of weeks back, so hopefully he'll include all his details when he pops that up.

[JoshB]

Does any one know a dealer or supplier that sells the Terokal adhesive (part #83190153050 for regluing the window in the soft top? the dealers around me want to sell me the whole top mechanism!

[macfly]

I would call Dana at Peter Pan for sure - 650-204-7550

[SProZ8]

I checked BMW's TIS on the window replacement to verify what I recall from when I had my rear window replaced. The window zips in and is laminated to the fabric with a two sided tape in lieu of a Terokal contact adhesive. The TIS indicates that the existing tape has to be scraped off before new tape is applied. The "u" shaped plastic bead that adheres to the edge of the fabric around the opening is adhered with a gun applied adhesive, but has little to do with the window panel other than to secure the edge of the opening. I'm not sure if this info is any help, not knowing the exact nature of your intended repair?